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Highly modded engine. Where can I find more revs ? Detailed post.

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Old 27-08-2007, 02:08 AM
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Highly modded engine. Where can I find more revs ? Detailed post.

Highly modded engine. Where can I find more revs ? Detailed post.

G'day there all who are reading this.

I'm normally a bit of a lurker but now comes the time I need to ask for advice.
I've been working hard on making a weapon engine and so far have achived very good results but I just can't get the revs I am looking for. I want to get away from the doughy horrible nature of a CAG engine and get my baby screaming. It's mostly for the ability to achive a wider powerband so I can run shorter gearing, Just the scope for over rev past peak power would be awesome but here we go anyway.

What i've got so far is an engine built from scratch starting at the crankcase
33mm stroke full circle crankshaft 12mm pin
3D Ported 15:1 compression head kit (I believe this is a copy of the ADA kit with the single massive boost port)
NGK CR8HSA Spark Plug
Original reed plate with center bar cut out and a Polini sized Zocchi Carbon Fiber Reed
Dellorto 19mm Pumper Carburettor (this one is rare as. I can't find ANY info about it)
Fatboy Pipe (I have access to the Jetpro replica S-bend pipe, a few stock pipes and a modified stocker which has had the header cut by 3" and the belly lengthend by about 4.)
Crankcase has had some minor grinding done to help smoothen the air flow into transfer ports and the bottom of the cylinder has been cut at an angle to allow smooth transistion from the crankcase up the transfer ports.

The engine is a 4 port design. 2 Transfer Ports with a single large boost port cut at 90 degree as is the transfers.
Standard timings are as follows.
Exhaust opens at 112ATDC
Transfer Opens at 128ATDC
Total exhaust duration 136deg
Total transfer duration 104deg
Blowdown 32deg

As you would expect the engine had some good low down grunt but felt like a typical yard machine. Peak power down low and peak revs were rather low.

Since the first trial runs and dissapointment I have begun to raise the cylinder by making spacers out of aluminium in the shape of a base gasket. Currently i've got around 3mm extra on the base to raise the cylinder. The floor of the exhaust port has been cut to match the piston crown at BDC and the exhaust port widened about 1.5mm on each side. The exhaust port retains an oval like shape to remain nice to the piston rings. I have shaved the cylinder deck to bring the squish back into check as well. Squish is somewhere around 0.8mm at the moment.

With these modifcations engine timing is now around the following on last inspection. I say around because I haven't retimed the engine after raising the exhaust port height very slightly in effor to increase blowdown time.
Exhaust opens at 84ATDC
Transfer Opens at 65ATDC
Total exhaust duration 176deg
Total transfer duration 130deg
Blowdown 36deg

Now it appears I have hit a wall. Although the bike still pulls fairly strongly from down low it obviously no longer has the low end torque of before. I understand this compromise. But for such a radical increase in duration I would have thought I would get more top revs. The powerband is lovely now though. 7/76 gearing accelerates ballisticly and reaches a top speed of 49km/h in no time.

Am I unrealistic to expect more or is there anything else I can do ? I'm open to any ideas

Just thought i'd add i've currently got the spark plug gapped down to .021" from .026" to check to see if the spark was being blown out. No improvement.
The fuel I am currently running is Australian BP Ultimate 98RON with 25:1 Maxima Castor 927 and blended with 30% Toluene to bring octane up to 105 to suit the high compression.

The engine is running a standard timing key.

And finally here is a video link of me giving the bike a rev on the stand so you can hear how it's sounding. http://crashdummy.ugbox.net/files/cagreving.wmv

Thanks for taking the time to read this.
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Old 27-08-2007, 05:00 PM
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Sounds good .....

Unfortunatly i've got nothing but maybe try an advanced timming key....


Wanna do my bikes....
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Old 27-08-2007, 05:47 PM
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Originally Posted by GLEN #159 View Post
Sounds good .....

Unfortunatly i've got nothing but maybe try an advanced timming key....


Wanna do my bikes....
No, bad bad bad bad idea. Advanced timing keys are for the stock heads, it will make it run worse on this engine.
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Old 27-08-2007, 05:56 PM
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No, bad bad bad bad idea. Advanced timing keys are for the stock heads, it will make it run worse on this engine.
OK, my bad don't listen to me .........
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Old 27-08-2007, 08:12 PM
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I don’t know a whole lot about changing your port timings but I would imagine that balancing would play a big part in RPMs balance clutch, flywheel I'd imagine you've put top quality crank bearings in all ready so balancing is my only suggestion apart from chopping all the fins off your fly wheel

Last edited by Strez; 27-08-2007 at 08:14 PM. Reason: opps spelling
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Old 27-08-2007, 09:41 PM
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yep i can only think removing the fins & lightening all possible centrifical parts clutch included
a balanced crank & flywheel would make things nice & smooth & may help maximum rpms ?

try the jet pro rep & taller gearing ?
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Old 27-08-2007, 10:08 PM
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Exclamation

Careful lightening the clutch, well at least the arms .Because they operate on weight change the weight of the arms and you will have to compensate with lighter springs or longer spring length if you have an adjustable clutch.
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Old 28-08-2007, 12:26 AM
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Thats about where I'm at now Mac90. I'm going to try taller gearing and the jetpro rep pipe next but thats about all i can do right now. The I'm not touching the clutch. The flywheel has already been lightened. I've got one that is even lighter but would prefer not to use it.
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Old 28-08-2007, 06:05 PM
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shortening the stroke of your crank will give you more RPMs but will reduce the ccs (not keen on that idea ). another Idea might be to lighten your piston and conrod . My yellow jacket piston is ported along these lines and I think the skirt has been raised (I don't want too pull my motor apart just for a photo so I've drawn on the old one) lighter piston and conrod "may" change direction quicker therefore adding RPMs

PS. When you lighten the piston and conrod the closer they are to failing .lighten them to much and something will break

PPS. how many RPMs have you got Crash Dummy ? I've got about 10500 with only bolt on stuff .haven't checked the flywheel for balance yet

Last edited by Strez; 28-08-2007 at 07:05 PM.
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Old 30-08-2007, 07:42 PM
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Well tonight I took the plunge, I pulled the engine down and have reassembled with a half circle crank, lightened piston which includes removing all casting marks inside the piston and shaving the skirts by 1mm then doing a cut something like Strez has shown. Just not quite as extreme. I've fitted my most heavily lightened flywheel and a 2 shoe clutch. The piston is now set with only a single piston ring.

I'm excited. I'll have to make sure I get this finished off and tested tomorrow. The engine turns MUCH easier then the last build.
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